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RE: Radar Detectors
- Subject: RE: Radar Detectors
- From: "Retherford, Martin" <MRetherford@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 10:02:44 -0700
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If the K or Ka band is being used in a warm to active type of situation
there may be some room to argue for error. There is a lot of slop when you
take something from almost active to active. Many frequencies can be
generated and transmitted in the time it takes for the element that is
masing to reach a stable frequency that can be used for there metrology.
The electronics used for detection of returned signal can be band pass
filtered for a particular freq. and that may be where they are calibrating
when the cal these guns.
Any cops on the list who would care to share their insight?
Martin
-----Original Message-----
From: Blake Sobiloff [mailto:sobiloff@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Thursday, August 12, 1999 9:43 AM
To: ST@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: Radar Detectors
<< File: Card for Blake Sobiloff >> > "Retherford, Martin"
wrote:
>
> All,
> I thought I would ad a little tech spin to this.
I think what
> is meant by instant on would be laser. Difference being
that radar is
> a radio signal and laser being light.
Actually, there's instant-on radar as well as lidar (a/k/a
laser).
Instant-on radar, operating on the K or Ka bands in America,
generally
keeps the emitting element warm but not up to operating
temperature
where it actually begins to generate signal. When Officer
Speed pulls
the trigger the element is heated the rest of the way, thus
generating
the desired wavelength emissions.
Lidar, like you indicated, generally uses LEDs and thus has
no warm-up
time.
> I am not privy to what
> frequencies these guys are using but I can tell you if
they are using
> laser you need reflexes that are on the order of time
travel to not
> get nailed. There is a big problem with detecting laser
as well, it
> is not transmitted out into the world until the cop pulls
the trigger
> and to boot it requires line-of-sight contact for
detection.
This is why the Speed Nazis (tm) at the Insurance Institute
for Highway
Safety (IIHS) love to give lidar guns to police departments.
Radar likes
to bounce around a lot so if Officer Speed pulls the trigger
when you're
in approx. a 1-mile radius there's a good chance that a good
detector
will be able to pick up the reflections and alert you in
advance. Lidar,
however, has a narrow, pencil-shaped beam that doesn't
scatter much so
it's much harder to detect the reflected beam.
> I think the entire concept of a detector may be
predicated on
> the idea that you are not going to be the first one
getting zapped by
> whatever method used. The only way a detector can receive
a signal is
> when it is out there to be received. This only makes the
detector
> effective for radar signals (ONLY) and in moderate to
crowded traffic
> situations where you are not as likely to be speeding
anyway due to
> the desire not to die.
True to some degree, but your detector can see the signal
before it's
strong enough to successfully reflect back to Officer
Speed's unit and
register your speed. If Officer Speed is zapping a couple of
people a
minute you're going to see the reflected signal long before
you'll be
close enough to the Officer for him to get a reading on you.
<rant>The unfortunate reality is that I (and many others) go
faster in
moderate traffic than I do in light traffic for the very
reason you
point out. Dumb? Probably. So, if you think about it,
radar/lidar guns
actually increase dangerous behavior instead of decrease it.
Goes to
figure that the folks trying to save us from ourselves are
actually
promoting behavior that's more dangerous.</rant>
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<TITLE>RE: Radar Detectors</TITLE>
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<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">If the K or Ka band is being used in a =
warm to active type of situation there may be some room to argue for =
error. There is a lot of slop when you take something from almost =
active to active. Many frequencies can be generated and =
transmitted in the time it takes for the element that is masing to =
reach a stable frequency that can be used for there metrology. =
The electronics used for detection of returned signal can be band pass =
filtered for a particular freq. and that may be where they are =
calibrating when the cal these guns.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Any cops on the list who would care to =
share their insight?</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Martin</FONT>
</P>
<UL><UL>
<P><A NAME=3D"_MailData"><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">-----Original =
Message-----</FONT></A>
<BR><B><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">From: Blake Sobiloff =
[<A =
HREF=3D"mailto:sobiloff@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx";>mailto:sobiloff@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx</=
A>]</FONT></B>
<BR><B><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Sent: </FONT></B> <FONT =
SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Thursday, August 12, 1999 9:43 AM</FONT>
<BR><B><FONT SIZE=3D2 =
FACE=3D"Arial">To: </FONT></B> <FONT SIZE=3D2 =
FACE=3D"Arial">ST@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx</FONT>
<BR><B><FONT SIZE=3D2 =
FACE=3D"Arial">Subject: </FONT>=
</B> <FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Re: Radar Detectors</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial"> << File: Card for Blake =
Sobiloff >></FONT> <FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">> =
"Retherford, Martin" wrote:</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">> </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">> All,</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 =
FACE=3D"Arial">> I =
thought I would ad a little tech spin to this. I think =
what</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">> is meant by instant on would be =
laser. Difference being that radar is</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">> a radio signal and laser being =
light.</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Actually, there's instant-on radar as =
well as lidar (a/k/a laser).</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Instant-on radar, operating on the K =
or Ka bands in America, generally</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">keeps the emitting element warm but =
not up to operating temperature</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">where it actually begins to generate =
signal. When Officer Speed pulls</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">the trigger the element is heated the =
rest of the way, thus generating</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">the desired wavelength =
emissions.</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Lidar, like you indicated, generally =
uses LEDs and thus has no warm-up</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">time.</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">> I am not privy to what</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">> frequencies these guys are using =
but I can tell you if they are using</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">> laser you need reflexes that are =
on the order of time travel to not</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">> get nailed. There is a big =
problem with detecting laser as well, it</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">> is not transmitted out into the =
world until the cop pulls the trigger</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">> and to boot it requires =
line-of-sight contact for detection.</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">This is why the Speed Nazis (tm) at =
the Insurance Institute for Highway</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Safety (IIHS) love to give lidar guns =
to police departments. Radar likes</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">to bounce around a lot so if Officer =
Speed pulls the trigger when you're</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">in approx. a 1-mile radius there's a =
good chance that a good detector</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">will be able to pick up the =
reflections and alert you in advance. Lidar,</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">however, has a narrow, pencil-shaped =
beam that doesn't scatter much so</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">it's much harder to detect the =
reflected beam.</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 =
FACE=3D"Arial">> I =
think the entire concept of a detector may be predicated on</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">> the idea that you are not going =
to be the first one getting zapped by</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">> whatever method used. The =
only way a detector can receive a signal is</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">> when it is out there to be =
received. This only makes the detector</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">> effective for radar signals =
(ONLY) and in moderate to crowded traffic</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">> situations where you are not as =
likely to be speeding anyway due to</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">> the desire not to die.</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">True to some degree, but your detector =
can see the signal before it's</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">strong enough to successfully reflect =
back to Officer Speed's unit and</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">register your speed. If Officer Speed =
is zapping a couple of people a</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">minute you're going to see the =
reflected signal long before you'll be</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">close enough to the Officer for him =
to get a reading on you.</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial"><rant>The unfortunate reality is =
that I (and many others) go faster in</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">moderate traffic than I do in light =
traffic for the very reason you</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">point out. Dumb? Probably. So, if you =
think about it, radar/lidar guns</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">actually increase dangerous behavior =
instead of decrease it. Goes to</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">figure that the folks trying to save =
us from ourselves are actually</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">promoting behavior that's more =
dangerous.</rant></FONT>
</P>
</UL></UL>
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