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Re: Re: Re: handling



This is kind of long and ranting.  Delete now if you're
not in the mood :^).

ST@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
<snip>
> in too fast???? deal with it...look at the options:  Brakes = crash   
It is not always possible to "deal with it".  Sometimes you just 
have to lose a lot of speed.  Clearly, "Brakes = Crash" is not generally true.  It is more a question of when and how you use the
brakes and how much it upsets the motorcycle (and uses the available
traction).  

I do agree that at some points through a turn it is possible to 
exceed the available traction on the front tire by applying the
brakes (or chopping the throttle, or other things).  
For example, you suggest...

> Other option: crank it over farther and get on the gas immediately 
> and STAY on the gas and relax your ever tightening grip.... worst 
> case is that the pegs will scrape, and you may slide a little.... 

No, worst case is you drag hard parts and crash. If you are already dragging the pegs and you need more lean angle, the game is close to
already over.  Leaning more may mean dragging hard parts.
Using the brakes definitely means crashing at that point. 
At this point, whacking the throttle closed, if it was open does
not bode well either.  Perhaps we agree on these points?  

Braking, if it is to be done, has to be done _way_ before the 
turn has progressed to the point of dragging anything.  

> better than running off of the road.  If you anticipate that you are 

I'm not sure if it's always better to run off the road or slide off.
I guess that depends on the road. 

> about to enter too fast, get you butt over on the seat so that you 
> will be 'hanging off" through the turn before you snap it in, which
>
 
Already prepared to (way) hang off. Already prepared to buy
all the lean angle there is. Still too much speed.  What to do?  

> will buy you more lean angle.  Just do not roll off in the turn.  

Not sure what you mean here? Not rolled on the throttle yet.
Still entering the turn.  Just holding the brakes on longer
into the turn.

> Rolling off will compress the suspension, thus lessening ground 
> clearance and worsening your problem. 

Agreed, but not there yet. Suspension is still compressed.
Still entering the turn. Clearance is not a problem yet.


IME, brake trailing offers one additional measure of safety in a 
vein similar to other suggestion of advanced techniques like
hanging off to "buy" more lean angle.

Trailing the brakes buys the use of the stoppers to the last 
moment possible by using the available traction yet allowing 
progression through the turn in a graceful way.  A bike should not
fight back under such inputs, IMO.

Finally, I recently experienced a "situation".  With the stock ST
it went like brake into corner entrance, at the point at 
which I would normally be off the brakes and turn-in, 
instead I discover a decreasing radius. I think "oh shit", 
reapply brakes, start the turn-in, think  "this bike doesn't 
want to turn-in", as bike stands back up, Brake hard, think 
"oh shit", decide it is time to turn NOW!, execute very 
aggressive, fast turn-in i.e. "flick and stick".  
Negotiate the turn ok.  

All of that drama, when all I really wanted to do was trail the
brakes a little.  Sheesh. Pissed at bike for not taking the 
corner how I wanted to take it.  If I wanted to stand the bike
up and do an emergency braking manuver like that, guess what, 
that's what I would have done.  I don't like bike designers
telling me how to ride.  Same reason I didn't buy a bike with
linked brakes.

It's ok w/me if you don't want to use this technique. :^)  
Ride your own ride. For me, this is an important tool
that I will not give up for safety's sake.

Sorry for the rant. (not really :^))

Regards,
Robert

 


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