Re: [ST] Re: st-digest V2001 #323

[Thomas Emberson <thomas@xxxxxxx>]

On Sun, 3 Jun 2001 owner-st@xxxxxxxxxx wrote:

> Just out of interest, could I ask why? In my experience, angle of dangle
> isn't really much of an indicator of anything, except... angle of dangle.
> I can be going fast or slow, with one or both tyres heavily or lightly
> loaded, at pretty much any maximum lean angle, the other relevant variable
> being how quickly I'm turning the bike - and that's only loosely related to
> how tight the corner is. On the road, I'm riding for the view so I usually
> run as upright as possible into blind corners, out wide and nice and deep,
> which gives me the best view through the corner towards the exit. I set my
> speed on the road based on the principle that I can always stop more or less
> in the distance I can see to be clear, which means that if there's a tree
> down across the road just out of sight round a blind corner then I'm
> allowing time to stop before I pile into it, by turning the bike quickly if
> necessary before standing it up and braking hard.  Anyway, hopefully, if I'm
> taking a line for the view on the road, I'll see the exit, which is to say
> the point where the limit or vanishing point opens out (which means the
> corner finishes) and when I see that, I turn hard towards a convenient apex
> of my own choosing using classic Code style cornering techniques. The line
> is very square compared to what you'd use on a track with the same corner,
> and the lean angle is far higher at the chosen speed (for much less time,
> though) but in the absence of marshals [corner workers?] to wave red and
> yellow flags at you when there's a sand/oil slick just out of your view
> round the next bend, or indeed necessarily any idea where the next bend
> goes, much less risky.

Again, we are not on the track here. As far as decelerating,
traveling in the outer tire track then a sharp turn and accelerating
through the apex as you are straighening up (less lean as you hit
the has), that sounds like racing to me.

> 
> If you just lean the bike over the same amount for any corner and adjust
> speed to keep it there, I presume that means you like to take smooth
> sweeping lines round every corner. How do you set your speed for entry? In a
> long decreasing radius turn, does that mean you either have to brake while
> cranked over or break your self imposed limit and lean more?

Again, it is one of those things where I set my speed so I am at
100% of my or the bike ability. If I get into a decreasing radius
turn I have more then enough traction left on the rear tire for
engine or light rear braking, and I always have a bit more lean to
go if I need it.

But the same could be asked of you, what do you do when you are
accelerating through the "apex" of the turn and you suddenly find
that the turns goes on a bit further that you expected or is a bit
tighter (decreasing radius). All of a sudden you apex is further
along the road? Obviously you would decrease the acceleration, but
you've already started the weight transfer to the rear wheel.

I think we can all agree, that on the street, when you don't know
the corner, being a bit more conservative is probably wise. 

>  > I simply applied the brakes, the bike stood up as it should,
> 
> Again, an interesting approach. I may have the wrong end of the stick here,
> but applying the brakes in a corner will load the front tyre up - which will
> do one of two things in my experience - cause the bike to stand up if you

As I said, that is exactly what you want, stand the bike up and
stoppie the bad boy to scrub as much speed off as possible. It is
amazing how much speed you can drop. As well since I am not
accelerating in the turn the suspension should be close to neutral.

> are lucky, or cause the front wheel to wash out and low-side you if you
> aren't. If I /do/ need to stand the bike up to brake, my experience is that
> it is best to flick it up with the bars before braking - I've found it's
> quicker and less likely to drop me on the road...

combination of both, but you are right, at max. lean, application
of the front brake could very easily cause a low side. But if you
start to come out of it and progressive increase the front brake
as the bike upright itself you can slow it down very quickly.
Where the optimum lies between braking in steering input the right
the bike is beyond my skills. But in the one or two times I've had
to do something like that I came out okay.

> 
>  > Anyway, got on the brakes and started to turn,

that should probably be got off the brakes and started to turn in
again.

> of the corner - but he was and is a riding god, so I don't try to copy him
> myself, even on the track, let alone the road :-). Most times when most
> people try that shit, it ends in hospital after a high-side. My guess is
> that you were either very lucky, or you should be racing... :-) !!!

thanks, I think. Although I do have a surgically implanted horse
shoe up my arse. I did a lot of bicycle riding in my teens and
early 20's. Including one year where I had no car so I had to
commute to school on my bike in the winter (yes there where buses,
but I hate public transportation). So I've riding my mountain bike
on the snow, ice, mud, gravel, sand you name it. As well for a
couple of years I was an inspiring road racer, but my body structure
is not conducive to being overly competitive, so I got into more body
building/power lifting instead.

My point is, except for getting used to having a rear suspension,
I am pretty used to having wheels slide on dirt/ice/water/snow what
ever.

> Strange how different people have different ideas about how to ride, isn't
> it. Who teaches the techniques you use and do they have any literature I
> might look at?

Hate to admit it, but experience from 2 wheels of all kinds. I took
the MSF course in Ottawa (Bells Corners to be exact) and thats it.
I really want to take a track course. But that will have to wait.

As well I would love to get into racing, I feel that I am pretty
close to as fast as I feel comfortable on the road. But there so
much more speed to be had. Again, if I was really rich, I would
have a TL1000s 'cause I would love to have a twin. Deposit down on
a '02 Daytona, duh! A dual sport of pure off road, and of course
a SV650s for racing. Why a SV650s, even though I am at about 240
with out gear, I don't thing I want to race outside of sportsman
classes. When you get into the 600's and especially the open classes
you wind up racing with a lot of people who don't mind missing a
month or two of life with a broken collar bone, it'll just be a cool
scar.

And hey, it is possible that I could be on my bike on Friday!!!

Tom


/**********************************************************
Thomas Emberson  <Thomas@xxxxxxx>        http://get.qnx.com
QNX Software Systems Inc.
5100 Tennyson Parkway, Suite 1000, Plano, TX, 75024
V: 214-495-5665  F: 214-495-5664
**********************************************************/


     *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *
      The ST/RS Mailing list is sponsored by Jack Lilley Ltd.
          http://www.TriumphNet.com/st/lilley for more info
   http://www.TriumphNet.com/st for ST, RS and Mailing List info

=-=-=-= Next Message =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=