Re: [ST] Actual riding stuff

["cretin_1" <cretin_1@xxxxxxx>]

Hey Marc,
Very confusing with all the Paddles and shit, but are you going on the
Rallye or What? I'm leaving early Wed morn and will end up within 100mi.
from the hotel by Thur. night.
How is Grace progressing? Hopefully her concussive problems have dissipated
by now.
Is she still a rider, or have her injuries put her on a disabled list?
Why does your email address continue to dump messages?
Sorry for all the Questions, but I'm getting Psyched about the Rallye.
Hope to hear from you soon,
                                                Jim

Jim Schroeder "Desert Dawg"
Quartz Hill, CA   661-718-2180
'99 Sprint ST "Sable"
cretin_1@xxxxxxx
- -----Original Message-----
From: Marc Danziger <marc@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: labiker@xxxxxxxxxxx <labiker@xxxxxxxxxxx>; ST@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
<ST@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Thursday, June 07, 2001 9:44 AM
Subject: [ST] Actual riding stuff


>Aaah, synchronicity... Marc S and I admiring our gazongas (in the mirror)
>at the same time ... actually Marc's post about riding in traffic was dead
>on, and reflects the way I ride ... with little "paddles" out in front of
>my bike and all the vehicles around me. I just try and keep the paddles
>from overlapping as much as I can.
>
>GL and I went and had dinner Tuesday with our LEO friends, Shaun and Tracy
>(Shaun says "hi"), and had a long discussion about training and mindset and
>similar issues because they would rather I didn't have to bring her along
>in wheelchair.
>
>Part of what I realized is that there is an exact corollary to the issues
>in m/c training, which is LEO/military style "tactical" training. I've
>reviewed training materials and been a beta tester for several trainers in
>this area, and I think there's an exact parallel, which points out the
>deficiencies in most current motorcycle education. And what the areas are
>in which I will grovel, beg, insist, and withhold sex in the hope that
>Grace will try and get some further education...
>
>If I can ask that this not turn into a "guns good/guns bad/big guns better"
>argument, but a look at how people who shoot for a living (and their lives)
>are trained.
>
>In my limited historical understanding, up until the late '60s, there was
>minimal tactical training, and most police/military etc. were trained in
>marksmanship -- the ability to rapidly and accurately hit unrealistically
>small targets at the controlled environment of a firing range. There was a
>large "body of informal knowledge" about gunfights and gunfighting, but
>most of it was anecdotal and romanticized. There was a little bit of
>education -- kind of one-day classes -- that were run at places like
>Quantico, and the military Ops types probably had some similar training,
>but it was cursory at best. The emphasis was extraordinary performance --
>cloverleaf groups (where the bullet holes overlap) at the firing range.
>
>This is the equivalent of where we are now in the m/c world. We have
>racetrack training -- looking for extraordinary performance in unrealistic
>conditions -- and we have the MSF ERC, which is cursory at best.
>
>What got added in the shooting world was a body of doctrine around shooting
>tactics -- meaning techniques designed to deal with real solutions to real
>problems. Jeff Cooper at Gunsite was the first well-known figure in that
>world (first that I know of, but I'm sure there were others), and today
>there are maybe five or seven first-rate "academies" that teach "tactical
>firearms training". John Holschen, who taught the first-aid class, teaches
>at one, Insights, in Washington. Gunsite stil exists (where I took the
>rifle class in December), Clint Smith has Thunder Ranch in Texas, etc. etc.
>
>In every one of these schools, marksmanship is important, but only one
>small component in the larger body of skills necessary to solve tactical
>problems -- get into the house, get the hostage away from the bad guy --
>etc. The _level_ of marksmanship is deemphasized, and students who shoot
>cloverleafs can often be outperformed by students (like me) who are
>mediocre marksmen, but work hard at tactics and movement.
>
>The ultimate expression of this took place a few years ago at what is
>called the NTI, a national "tactical" competition. The "final exam" takes
>place in a simulated neighborhood, where real people are used (using
>nonlethal weapons that shoot "Simunitions", a kind paint pellets -- kind of
>hyper paintball guns). The scenarios are stacked so that the competitors
>face a series of more and more difficult interactions, and they are judged
>on how they do -- and one year, Greg Hamilton, founder of Insights,
>explained that he managed to get through the whole set of scenarios without
>drawing his gun or shooting at all. As I understand it, after a flurry of
>controversy, he was denied first place.
>
>He managed to use his tactical skills so well that he never had to rely on
>his marksmanship at all.
>
>Similarly, I'd suggest that the ideal in motorcycling should be to ride so
>well that you never need superior motorcycle handling to get out of bad
>situations -- simply because you never get into bad situations in the first
>place. It's an ideal -- not a reality.
>
>So what's needed is a doctrine espousing superior tactics in street
>motorcycling. There's this program in England that folks on the ST list
>have directed me to; I ordered the textbook from Amazon UK (it so cool when
>the confirmation explains that the book is being shipped via "Royal
>Post"!!), and will share it around when it arrives. And perhaps the folks
>on this list can start putting together notes for such a doctrine...
>
>More later.
>
>
>
>MarcD
>
>
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