Re: The Last Triumph?

["Jonathan Schulster" <Schulster@xxxxxxxxxxx>]

That's ok, I have my flamethrower handy :)

All your points are fair; I agree that a petition is pointless in this case.

I guess I was going on my sample of two bikes ('97 T509) and '99 ST.  The T509 needed 8 of 12 valves reshimmed and had 2 burned valves. Of course this would just reduce their lifetime, by which time the warranty would have expired and the poor owner would have to fit the bill for head/cam/ valve rebuild.   From that point of view it is not surprising that Triumph don't really care for the issue - they will make a profit from it - selling more engines and valve kit to suckers like us :(

As far as I know there were only 2 accidents involving early T5's that resulted in the frame recall, but the result/effects was considered serious enough to warrant a full recall notice. I hear that cost £20M+ to do.  In that case the liability from one legal case involving a cracked frame made it worthwhile.  In this case of course a recall is not warranted, but in almost every case it is a gradual decrease in performance or noise increase that has lead to the request for a valve check.

  I think there is a very simple rule.... if the owner wishes to have the valves checked at 6,000mi then they accept the payment;
a) if no valves are out of spec then the owner pays.
b) if the valves need reshimming then Triumph reimburse for the shims and labour for the check (bot not the standard service).
c) this will pick up any of the bikes that are particularly noisy, down on power and therefore likely to burn-out valves creating a warranty claim later!

If Triumph are so sure this is not a problem then let them put their money where their mouth is!  If they are right then:
a) this will cost them nothing
b) it will restore complete confidence from potential buyers that Triumph are confident enough to provide a FULL WARRANTY for the machine.

They dont even need to really advertise this; simply inform the dealers that when bikes come in for the 10,000km/6000mi service the owner is to be offered this option. The owner then gets to choose.

I hope that Triumph appreicate the enormous influence of owners in creating sales for bikes; I and almost all Triumph owners I know switched to them because:
a) they tried a friend's Triumph
b) a friend told them how much they loved their bike
c) a friend recommended their dealer.

I have been responsible for the sale of 3 Sprint ST's to date, and I am sure without even saying a word (i.e. simply not recommending anything) I can lose that many sales in 2000.  Reputation is one of things that is very hard to gain and very easy to lose!   I really hope that Triumph see the sense in the above arguments and make some efforts to rebuild the confidence in this motor.

take care out there!
(nearly got flattened yesterday at a junction - raining, car had no lights and was 'idling' as it crossed - it was grey-blue too :(
Jonathan

>>> Eric Sheley <SprintST@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> 09/08/99 17:51:03 >>>
Let me say in advance that I have donned my asbestos underwear .... ;-)

First, to answer Philippe Deraeve's question, there are between 250-300 
subscribers to the ST lists. As far as sending a petition, it would be 
something to consider IF Triumph were unaware of our feelings, but as this 
list (and many other Triumph lists) are monitored by Triumph 
representatives, they know of these problems and our feelings as soon as 
the information hits the list.

Now on to Jonathan's email.

First, before I drop my .02 worth, let me just say that I am amazed that 
Triumph did not offer some sort of compensation to Jonathan, if under 
nothing else but goodwill.

Now on to the Valve issue itself. (and I am sure that I may ruffle some 
feathers with this)

1) (Just to eliminate any confusion on the issue) The checking of valve 
clearances is not a warranty item - however it must be done at the 
specified intervals to maintain the warranty on your motor. Any damage 
found to other related systems (valves etc) at a regularly scheduled 
interval (or before) however, is covered.  Also, if some indication of a 
valve problem exists (noise or performance issue) before the scheduled 
service, the clearance check will typically be covered.

2) Triumph has INCREASED the interval from 6,000 miles to 12,000 miles 
before the first check is due.

So if Triumph has a valve problem on a significant number of motorcycles, 
why would they extend the length of time before the first check? If 
anything this would dramatically increase overall warranty costs for 
Triumph as they start replacing valves etc. This would also then greatly 
effect resale values and repeat sales.

The answer then is that Triumph does not have a significant problem. Just 
look at our own list for a second. Just from the results that I have from 
the list members that have had the adjustment done, I can find nothing that 
shows any widespread problems. I have also been corresponding with a number 
of T5 owners from different lists and getting as much data from them as 
possible when I hear of someone doing the service. All that information 
continues to show a problem here and there, but a majority with little or 
no shim change needed. And as Triumph has stated, this concurs with the 
information that is being reported by their servicing centers on a 
worldwide basis (on all models - 595, 955, 509, Speed Triple, ST).

Jonathan is correct in his statement however that for the 99's, many have 
not hit the scheduled maintenance interval, so there may still be a problem 
out there that has just not shown up in the numbers. All I can do is to 
continue to collect information from the people on this list and if we see 
a problem develop, report on it at that point to Triumph.

As another example, take the radiator issue that has affected a couple of 
listers. To those of us reading the list, it appeared to be an up and 
coming problem (at one point even being referred to as a virus). We are 
such a small group right now that any problem that occurs to one or more of 
us can start to look significant. But looking at the radiator issue from 
the vantage point of the whole corporation, you find that this problem 
effects less than one half of one percent of all ST's sold ...  and it 
begins to change how you look at the problem. Now is it a problem ? Of 
course it is, especially to those that it happens to - but is it something 
that requires recall or other drastic measures ? Of course not. But even 
though this problem effects a very small number of units, Triumph none the 
less is concerned and examined the problem.

So now having said all that (and sounding a bit like a Triumph rep myself) 
I would like to remind Triumph that it is far costlier to get a new 
customer to Triumph than it is to keep a current customer happy (so that 
he/she may buy again from Triumph). Sometimes a little well placed good 
will can go much further than all the slick, glossy publicity 
materials.  Many on this list do a lot to promote the Triumph name and it 
is nice to once and a while feel that we are appreciated for doing so 
(especially those of us that continue to buy from Triumph). Where 
Jonathan's claim prevented a later costlier service for Triumph, surely 
some arrangement could (and should) be made.

Again just my .02

- - Eric


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