RE: Troubling thoughts

[Dennis Tackett <dennis.tacket@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Guys,
I called 2 people here in Dallas about this. One has over 40 years expeience
building old Triumph motors for speed records at Bonneville. He also is
helping build the new motor that will set the new record this August with a
projected speed of 236. The other has 20+ years experience with all marques.
Here is their take on this:

1. The journals are not pinned in the new motors but this is not a problem
as there are 8 other bolts besides the ones replaced in the recall that hold
this section of the motor together.

2. The new Triumph motors are absolutely bulletproof to the point of almost
being paranoid about it. When John Bloor decided to go back into business
the last thing he wanted was reliability questions.

3. The first new Triumph to be raced at Daytona had 45 pounds of material
shaved out of the cases and various areas of the motor. This was done in
addition to removing the balance shaft. They never had a problem and won Pro
Thunder at Daytona. They ran that same motor all season with no problems.

4. A messenger in England put over 100,000 miles on one of the first
generation bikes. Triumph heard about it and bought the bike back from him.
When they tore it down they found that the engine tolerances would have
still passed factory specs.

5. I personally talked to a guy that had his Trophy serviced in Denver and
then rode home to Dallas. He noticed funny noises and a reduction in
performance about 50 miles from home and limped in. They forgot to put oil
back in the motor when they changed it in Denver. Of course it was trashed
but it went over 600 miles on a teacup of oil before it started to seize.

Bottom line guys is don't sweat it.

- -----Original Message-----
From: Retherford, Martin [mailto:MRetherford@xxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Thursday, May 20, 1999 1:12 PM
To: 'ST@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx'
Subject: RE: Troubling thoughts


All,
A couple of thoughts.
I have built many motors and disassembled many others from VWs to rotarys.
Looking at the triple in the service manual it is a very different motor
style to my experience and I am pulling from what I remember of the design
when I did my last look at it.  If the main bearing journals are pinned for
position all this talk is a mute point.  A thing of note is that I said the
journals not the bearings themselves.  Many motors pin bearing but not
journals and a loose bolt(s) would have done irreparable damage to the
bearings themselves if there are no pins in the journals.
That being said a motor rebuild would take care of any damage that was done
by loose bolts.  Running it like hell in a vain attempt to cause it to break
within warranty is not likely to be done.  The total life is shortened for
the motor, assuming the journals are not pinned.  You would have to put say
150,000 miles on in less than two years to test the warranty theory.
Current state law hear in California pertaining to "lemons", poorly working
vehicles, says that the vehicle has to be in for repair 4 times for the same
problem or out of service for longer that 30 days for the vehicle to be
classified as a lemon.  I don't know if this applies to motorcycles and "30
days out of service" means that it is at the dealer not sitting in your
garage.
Now trying to get the dealer to eat some sort of repair cost or triumph for
that matter on rebuilding a motor, the only way that it might happen is if
you took them to court.  That I can pretty much guarantee.  I hope you took
pictures when they were doing the bolt replacement and have the ability to
get signed statements from the service tech about the service and have
ridiculous amounts of money and time to throw away on an attorney and court.
So what are you left with?
Well you are left with a motor that has to re-break in the bearings
(providing the journals are not pinned) and they will have at worst case a
little loose tolerance on the bearings effected by the loose bolts.  In
other words we are all hosed to some extent.

Martin

		-----Original Message-----
		From:	Hoppler, Harl [mailto:Harl.Hoppler@xxxxxxxx]
		Sent:	Thursday, May 20, 1999 10:41 AM
		To:	'Sprint List'
		Subject:	Troubling thoughts

		I was discussing the current crankcase bolt situation with a
friend who 
		has considerable experience with building motorcycle motors.
His 
		immediate reaction was "if the bolts were loose in your
motor, get
		your money back." His thinking was that the bearings and
case
		mating surfaces would all have moved around, potentially
damaging
		them, the crank, and anything that requires the close
tolerances
		in that part of the motor. Removing and replacing the bolts,
with
		even a slight misalignment to the case could have a very
negative
		impact on the longevity of the motor. And what about
transmission
		shafts and the like? 

		Any comments from experienced motor builders? 

		Should anyone owning a bike under recall just run the
bejesus out 
		of it and hope it craters during warranty?

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