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Re: [ST] Triumph Daytona
Lets hope that EMAP who added Motorcyclist to their stable of motorcycle
magazines relatively recently are not running some sort of crusade against
Triumph. Though going by their "makeovers" of other recently aquired titles
in the UK the end result has quite often been a shadow of its former self.
Certainly one of their UK publications, the rather scatalogical Performance
Bikes, appears to have been blacklisted by Triumph for continuously slagging
them off in tests.
This will affect where Triumph place their advertising and magazines are
dependant on that revenue.
Having said that while any test is subjective and personal it does appear
that Triumph have had some problems with the fuelling on some of their more
recent models and are obviously moving away from Sagem in the belief that
this will cure their problems. Lets hope that's the case. Chances are that
the problem is a deeper rooted one which has more to do with limited
resources and insufficient expertise in mapping FI systems.
>From: "John Westcott" <westcott@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>Reply-To: ST@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>To: <ST@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, <marcook@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>CC: <mcmail@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>Subject: [ST] Triumph Daytona
>Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 20:41:31 -0500
>
>Marc:
>
>First, let me say I've been long time subscriber to "MOTORCYCLIST" and I
>enjoy the articles, writing and presentation of the magazine. It's a
>compliment to your magazine for me to say I recently dropped my
>subscriptions to BIKE and RIDE while adding another two years to my
>subscription to MOTORCYCLIST. Having said that, it is difficult for me to
>read an comparison of motorcycles like the recent Aprilia Mille v. Triumph
>Daytona v. Suzuki GSX-R1000 and not suspect (at least some) bias in
>opinions
>expressed.
>
>(By the way, I'm mid forties, been riding motorcycles since I was 12 and
>have ridden and owned motorcycles from every Japanese company. Out of 16
>plus motorcycles owned, my all time favorite motorcycle is my '97 Triumph
>Thunderbird, with a recently added Watsonian sidecar. The styling of the
>Thunderbird is classic, the three cylinder engine sounds great and is a
>wonderful compromise between the torque/vibration of a twin and the
>power/smoothness of a four cylinder motor. I also own a '99 BMW R1100S
>which I think is a great sport tourer with the right set of bars,
>windscreen, pegs and seat. Finally, I own a '00 Triumph Daytona, a bike
>with beautiful styling and more than enough power and handling for me. I
>personally like European bikes because I find Japanese bikes (and cars)
>lack
>something . . . personality?, charisma?, character? . . .I don't know what
>the proper word is but for me some intangible factor that makes all the
>difference of whether I even look a new offering from a motorcycle
>manufacturer and certainly whether I buy and keep a new motorcycle in my
>garage. Like you, "I don't mind quirky motorcycles", in fact I like
>them.)
>
>It's great that Suzuki has a great engine and bike in the GSX-R1000 and I'm
>sure Suzuki will sell every one they import in the USA. Frankly, I find
>the
>Suzuki boring. The styling does nothing for me (I also not too keen on the
>"new" styling of the '02 Daytona) and the fact that the four cylinder
>engine
>puts out a lot of power and is smooth is wonderful and I could care less
>because I would not even consider the bike. I would consider the Aprilia
>Mille and Triumph Daytona for the same reasons you and Boehm expressed in
>the "Off the Record" comments. It does not matter to me than the Suzuki
>can
>get down the quarter almost a second faster or around the race track four
>seconds faster than the Aprilia or the Triumph because I'm not a good
>enough
>rider to take advantage of the additional "potential" of the Suzuki.
>
>Constructive criticism from a motorcycle magazine reviewer is expected and
>can help a company improve the motorcycle model in question. It is a fine
>line, however, between constructive criticism and damning a bike in print.
>MOTORCYCLIST editors made the fuel injection problems in the Triumph TT600
>abundantly clear. Frankly, it seemed to me that the writers at
>MOTORCYCLIST
>went out of their way to dump on the TT600 and now the Daytona. Several
>months ago I spent the day riding one of the original TT600 that had the
>"remapped" fuel injection programmed and was very impressed with the bike
>and did not find any of the hesitation or glitches that was originally
>written about it. Yet recently MOTORCYCLIST did not even include the TT600
>in a recent 600 comparison allegedly because the TT600 did not meet some
>minimum standard MOTORCYCLIST set for the comparison. If this is the case,
>why go out your way to make a big point of not including the TT600? Do you
>think this helped Triumph make it a better bike?
>
>In reading your comments in the "Off the Record", you wrote three sentences
>(semi) praising the Daytona and the next whole paragraph strongly critical
>of Triumph for "crummy FI" and "customer beta tests". How many potential
>purchasers of the Daytona will not purchase this outstanding motorcycle
>because of that additional paragraph? Frankly, your comments were (in my
>opinion) were unfair. Triumph is a pioneer in the field of fuel injection
>and has had many successes and a few miscues. It has worked hard to
>correct
>problems that have cropped up with the fuel injection mapping. I find it
>ironic that MOTORCYCLIST was given a "completely stock U.S. form" Aprilia
>Mille and asked to "please leave it that way" in the testing yet felt it
>was
>perfectly acceptabler in a comparison test to modify the Aprilia Mille
>having "ripped out the airbox restrictor, the exhaust restrictor, and
>clipped the blue/green wire--for off-road testing only" prior to the test.
>Why didn't you add a "competition" exhaust to the Daytona and have a local
>dealer put in the latest remapping "tune" for optimal performance also?
>This certainly would have been closer to "real world" testing as almost
>every Daytona owner I know has modified their bike by adding a
>"competition"
>pipe and downloading a new "tune" to remap the fuel injection computer.
>
>I am personally thrilled that John Bloor and Triumph are making motorcycles
>and taking chances. They have style and character, if perhaps some
>quirkiness. I am also thankful that I have the opportunity to purchase
>fine
>bikes from Triumph (and BMW, Aprilia, Ducati, Moto Guzzi for that matter)
>because I am not interested in the fastest "flavor of the month" from
>Suzuki
>(such as the GSX-R1100), Honda (CBR 929R), Yamaha (R-1) or Kawasaki
>(ZX-12R). With all due respect, please keep people like me in mind when
>you
>publish a review and also keep in mind whether your printed words will help
>make the product better or damn it out of business.
>
>Your humble reader,
>
>John Westcott
>Portland, Texas
>From: "Marc Cook" <marccook@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>To: <ST@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>
> >. . .
>
> > So if you're predisposed to liking the Daytona (as I'm sure most on this
> > list are) then take the information presented (dyno figures, general
>chassis
> > performance, ergonomic evaluations, etc.) and use them to come to your
>own
> > conclusions. Be man enough to be happy with a third-place bike. ;-)
> >
> > Finally, I've got to say that Triumph really needs to get its act
>together
> > on the fuel injection. I don't know if it's a setup issue--we are
>delivered
> > test bikes that are supposed to be representative of those on the
>showroom
> > floor, and it's not our fault if they're not--but if I get on another
>new
> > Triumph with crappy FI mapping I'm gonna scream.
> >
> > --MC
>
>
>
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