RE: [ST] BT 020's and a Little Dragon Blog

["James Goldston" <jgoldston@xxxxxxxx>]

Good points.  I spun the wheels holding a piece of wood firmly in place to
scruff the tire to identify any out of roundness.  There was very little out
of roundness on both tires, approx 1/32 to 1/16 inch.  These are eyeball
measurements, and I have no idea whether this is within expected tolerance.
I understand this is not what you'd consider "good data," but it's all I can
do right now.

With respect to riding style on the Dragon, I posted a note to the KRATs and
then discussed this with several KRAT riders, one of them being a racer.

Let me preface by noting that I have yet to do a track day (desire is there,
just not everything else).  I don't have the experience some of you have who
know what it's like to allow yourself to push the bike and yourself close to
its limits.  I've since backed off a good bit in the twisties, but not
enough such that I haven't still made some mistakes on the Dragon.

I've tried the Dragon several ways:

 1. Almost entirely in 1st just like you, Steve.
 2. Almost all 2nd, downshifting only when necessary.
 3. Simply going as fast as possible and braking as late as possible.

I was going to do my thoughts on pros and cons on each but have run out of
time.

Gotta go,
James '02 ST



> -----Original Message-----
> From: James Goldston [mailto:jgoldston@xxxxxxxx]
> Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2003 11:45 AM
> To: KnoxvilleRATs@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [KnoxvilleRATs] Cornering speed, was "The Dragon!"
>
> Re: the note I made about riding the Dragon in 1st and subsequent
> discussions.  I have really wanted to talk to someone about this and as
> luck (providence?) would have it David Rhynehart was at the Tea Room last
> night and I got some time with him.
>
> First, let me say I can't remember what the Sprint ST wrings out
> in to 1st,
> but the rev limiter does kick in at 9700.  I hit it a few times riding the
> Dragon in 1st, had to hit 2nd a few times in the straights, then had to
> immediately downshift for braking, finding a little wheel
> lockup/chatter in
> the process.  I wanted to use motor braking as opposed to brake
> pad braking
> and see the effect.  Now that I think about it, I'm not sure if I hit the
> rev limiter then totally let off the gas whether the back wheel will
> lockup/chatter or not.  I told Dave it wouldn't but next time I get it out
> I'll check for sure.
>
> Try not to beat me up on semantics.  I'll try to summarize what I got out
> of the discussion with Dave last night.
>
> 1. You don't learn much about cornering speed riding the Dragon using
> engine braking alone.  I agree.  You might enjoy the ride, but the only
> ones you pass will be cages and cruisers.
>
> 2. You are robbing yourself of significant time through any particular
> section of road.  On the track I could see this adding many seconds to a
> track time.  You have to "brake" earlier in the curve (actually way before
> the curve).
>
> 3. Need to find the rhythm of cornering.  A low hp bike is great
> to do this
> on.
>
> That's about all I can do for now.
>
> Later folks,
> James


> -----Original Message-----
> From: James Goldston [mailto:jgoldston@xxxxxxxx]
> Sent: Monday, May 05, 2003 10:35 AM
> To: KnoxvilleRATs@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: RE: [KnoxvilleRATs] The Dragon!
>
> BTW, went to the Dragon Sat evening from around 6-8 pm (purposely late to
> miss the traffic).  I tried something I haven't done before.  I rode as
> much of the Dragon in 1st that I could.  I got into 2nd only when
> I had to,
> and then would quickly have to get back done into 1st, dragging the back
> tire on occasion as I downshifted.  I didn't do near as much shifting as I
> have when running mostly in 2nd.  Felt more comfortable doing it in 1st,
> but it was slower, too.  I think TerryT mentioned this once.  It
> felt good.
> While I didn't go as fast I wasn't as concerned about getting out of
> control.



> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-st@xxxxxxxxxx [mailto:owner-st@xxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of
> Steven Kohlscheen
> Sent: Monday, September 08, 2003 11:22 PM
> To: ST@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: RE: [ST] BT 020's and a Little Dragon Blog
>
>
> <<
>  2. Any idea what's with the floppin' over business?  Is it due
> to the steep
> angle of the tread close to the sidewall, do I need to take a MSF
> Beginner's
> Course, or maybe I just started a bad habit on new tires.  The
> latter could
> happen, as it's been a while since I ran the Dragon.  (I can't say that I
> HAVEN'T started a new bad habit.)
> >>
> I did a Dragon run about a month & 1/2 ago with the last of my last set of
> BT020's.  I can't say that I noticed a "flop" to them, even after
> slabing it
> from St Louis.  I did notice that when I ran a BT010 front for a trackday,
> and some normal riding, that it seemed to steer slower than a
> matched set of
> BT020's.  I can say the BT020 did reasonably well under me, but I
> can't say
> I was as confidant in them as the Pirelli Dragon GTS' I used to run.  I am
> now flogging a set of Avon ST, and that familiar feeling from the Pirellis
> is back.  I'm likin' this more.  I do hang off a bit, and I have Race
> Tech'ed the front on my '02 Sprint ST.  Dunno if this matches
> your setup and
> style, but I thought it worth mentioning.  BTW, did you get out of first
> gear on the Dragon?  I found that first carried me thru the entire run
> pretty much fine.  I touched redline on a couple spots, but that looked to
> be about 70-80mph.
>
> I have another thought about your speed weave.  A friend of mine just went
> thru this with a set of Avon STs, a new front tire fixed it,
> because the one
> he was running was out of round.  His was on a ST1300, and at about 110 it
> would buck & weave pretty seriously.  It's worth looking at, try
> and suspend
> the bike up, and watch the crown of the tire in relation to the
> fender, from
> the side, as it spins.  Or have someone with a machine test it.
>
> Steven "Dirty Dawg" Kohlscheen


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