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Re: [ST] Rupert: Is this a concern?



Yes, I just read the Hawklist rants two days ago, stirred up quite a
hornet's nest!  It looks like the list admin was able to block access
for Nabble.  

Jeremy Witt
Field Engineer
Corrugated Networking Services Inc.
Office: 603-703-0365



-----Original Message-----
From: st-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:st-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of John Petrey, Jr.
Sent: Thursday, February 09, 2006 9:33 AM
To: St@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [ST] Rupert: Is this a concern?

Looks like some company is getting access to MC Listservs and 
archiving everything and everybody. I don't know about you folks but 
I'd just assune that not happen here.

John Petrey


>X-Sender: bnagel@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>X-Apparently-To: FloribamaRiders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>To: <FloribamaRiders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>
>Some of you computer geeks, has asked about the noise we heard this
last
>week on the Hawklist dealing with a company that invaded the list
without
>permission. They ended up archiving the list and everyone on it. Lots
of
>upset people concerned about privacy issues, and spammers.
>
>List director was able to get them off the list and blocked them. But
Katy
>Marie, notes attached explains Nabble has gone after quite a few
Motorcycle
>list, so be aware of a possible problem.
>Safety
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Kathy Marie" <kpmarie@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>To: <HAWKGT-L@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2006 9:47 AM
>Subject: Re: Nabble
>
>
>Hi, Hawkers,
>
>Obviously my blood pressure is in the red over Nabble.  Well, I went
>hunting to see what I could find.
>
>Nabble.com at first appeared to be the brainchild of two guys:  Rob
>Morris (who posted to our list) and Will Lin. This link names Will as
>one of the co-founders:
>
>http://raibledesigns.com/page/rd?entry=free_forums_from_nabble_com#comm
e
>nts
>
>I'm not certain whether it's just two guys anymore.  Will made mention
>of "handing that issue off to the tech guys" in one post so it may be
>Nabble is a larger organization.  Dave found out Nabble is incorporated
>in California (sorry, I don't know how he managed that so I've got no
>link for you.)  They also have a lawyer, Adam Glen Slote in San
>Francisco, email DCMA@xxxxxxxxxx on the Nabble's Terms of Use page,
>located here:
>
>http://www.nabble.com/user/Terms.jtp
>
>He's real and registered with the California bar as denoted here:
>
>http://members.calbar.ca.gov/search/member_detail.aspx?x=137465
>
>My guess is Nabble needed a lawyer because they've gotten threats of
>lawsuits over copyrights, see below.  But what do I know???
>
>Nabble has been collecting computing mailing lists since roughly April
>2005, however it looks like they added the highest volume lists (debian
>hierarchy) in early November.  Motorcycling lists were added in a big
>way in late December, as you can see in my previous post--BTW, sorry
>about the formatting, I don't know what happened with that.
>
>In this thread dated mid-December, Rod Morris admits they started
adding
>lists from the mail archive site Gmane after their requests to list
>admins got ignored.  This discussion also mentions that Nabble makes
>every effort to hide the source of the content and also takes list
>control out of admin hands, the link is here:
>
>http://www.nabble.com/-PIC-Internal-clock-t748357.html#a2000033
>
>
>Nabble claims to be championing "the user."  A post detailing the
>distinction between "committers" (who prefer email lists and add real
>content) and "users" (who prefer web-based forums and don't add
content)
>is here:
>
>http://www.nabble.com/Re%3A-Why-isn%27t-Rev-more-popular-Mailing-List--
t
>659015.html#a1758307
>
>
>And an interesting discussion about Nabble in the linux.debian.project
>list is located here:
>
>http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&safe=off&num=100&q=Linux+Foru
m
>s&safe=off&qt_s=Search&as_drrb=b&as_mind=1&as_minm=12&as_miny=2005&as_m
a
>xd=7&as_maxm=2&as_maxy=2006
>
>I don't know if that link will make it.  The simple way to find that
>discussion is search under Google Groups for the title, "Linux Forums",
>the date is January 26th.  Nabble has no archive for
>linux.debian.project as of today, I assume they blocked the Nabble
feed.
>
>As I mentioned, the MC lists shanghaied by Nabble received no
>notification.  Well, it looks like computer mailing lists got the same
>treatment.  Nabble is archiving thousands of them (I gave up counting)
>however a search on "nabble" in the software hierarchy showed only a
>couple hundred hits.  My guess is many lists drop Nabble as soon as
they
>realize they're archived; however it seems to take from one to three
>months for a list to discover this.  (I did find a few who stayed on
>Nabble but blocked posting from their interface.)  Here is a post from
>Will Lin dated October 5th wondering why Nabble had been dropped by the
>ws.apache mailing list hierarchy:
>
>http://www.mail-archive.com/general@xxxxxxxxxxxxx/msg04843.html
>
>
>Nabble was dropped from the Thinkpad mailing list on January 12 here:
>
>http://martigny.ai.mit.edu/hypermail/thinkpad/2006-01/0620.html
>
>
>Nabble was told to drop the Shadowriders mailing list on January 28
>here:
>
>http://www.nabble.com/Copyright-t1013499.html#a2640296
>
>Nabble has deleted the first post in that thread.  However, the first
>few lines of the Shadowrider list admin's post are still available
here:
>
>http://www.nabble.com/forum/Search.jtp;jsessionid=dp77il3qdl659?query=c
o
>pyright&forum=1&local=y&daterange=0&startdate=&enddate=
>
>Short version:  the list admin is *really* unhappy.  I imagine there
>could be plenty of people like him, no???
>
>Another thing I noticed is a trend in Will and Rob's responses.
>June-ish of 2005, they're polite and just trying to be helpful; in the
>thread above, Rob is correcting the Shadowrider list admin on copyright
>law!  This makes me think Nabble's had lots of unfavorable responses
>plus a low sign-up rate, which might be why they started signing lists
>up themselves.
>
>There are roughly fifty separate MC lists still on Nabble who 1)  don't
>know they're being archived by Nabble and 2) can be posted to by people
>NOT subscribed to their list.  This "feature" was going to be remedied
>in the next release of Nabble software which was scheduled for January
>and still hasn't happened.
>
>I want to be clear:  I'm NOT certain if the following is ethical
>(although I admit I like the idea of hoisting Nabble with their own
>petard.)  I have to agree with John that "just because you can, doesn't
>mean you should" so please sound off!!!
>
>How about using their own technology to get the word out?  That is, a
>friendly post *from Nabble* to every list archived (motorcycle or
>otherwise?) saying, "Do you know Nabble is doing to you what it did to
>us?"  We could provide relevant links along with the information
>necessary to unsubscribe and block Nabble if the list admin so chooses.
>
>And I think it would be cool to let every MC list admin know about
>Nabble whether they're on it or not, but I'm not sure how to do that.
>Maybe micapeak???
>
>Also, I don't know if it might be possible for Nabble to re-subscribe
us
>again with a fake address but I'm willing to keep checking on that.
>There are multiple mail archives on the web and we aren't in any of
them
>as of yesterday.
>
>A side note, searching on all this stuff has given me pause about our
>own archives.  They don't block email harvesting in any way, shape or
>form.  If we decide to "go public" with Nabble, as it were, it's
>possible our site could get nasty traffic...
>
>Kathy Marie


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