Re: [ST] Accidents (was (mandatory jail (was IDIOTS))

[Steve Bergman <steverayb@xxxxxxxxx>]

Every single mistake you or anyone else makes while driving a car or motorcycle
is potentially life threatening.  EVERYONE MAKES MISTAKES, if anyone on this
list or anywhere else tells me they've never made a mistake while driving I
will believe they're lying. If that's true are we saying that only the mistakes
(of the billions that happen every day) that cause injury or loss of life are
criminal? (they can all be deadly it's just a matter of circumstance)
  
All definitions of "accident" aside...Humans make mistakes. They make them all
the time. They make them when writing email and they make them when they build
space shuttles. It doesn't matter how seriously they take what they're doing
they make mistakes. Humans are not machines.

That said...Our society has made it necessary for nearly everyone to operate a
huge, fast, dangerous, life threatening machine every day of our lives and you
can't change that. It's a daily activity as common as scratching your ass (and
we train them about as well to do it). The loss of life in the process of this
way of life is inevitable you can't change that either. 

I will contend that a simple mistake while driving that injures or takes a life
is unfortunate but not criminal.  Until we change the way we allow people to
operate this type of machinery it's just innocent people going about their
daily lives and I don't think they should go to jail because they make a
mistake.

There is such a zone of comfort built into the operation of vehicles and unless
you change that you will never be able to punish everyone who makes a mistake
or has an "accident".  It wouldn't be fair or beneficial to anyone.

It's a freakin death trap out there and you take your chances every time you
step out in public. It's sad but it's true. 

Steve Bergman




--- david.funk@xxxxxxxxxxx wrote:

> As you say "And we should be liable for screw ups. "
> That is what civil courts are for, and they work very well in this country.
> Jail is for crime.
> 
> David W. Funk
> Pleasanton, CA
> 
> -------------- Original message -------------- 
> 
> > I can not disagree more, The whole idea of accident does not apply to 
> > 95% of car Vs. pedestrian, biker or motorcyclist incidents. These are 
> > not "accidents" , they are MISTAKES and drivers need to be responsible 
> > for their mistakes, specially when they kill somebody. Imagine that 
> > for some weird reason you have to walk out of your house with a 
> > machine gun on hand, finger on the trigger pointing it at everyone 
> > around you, how careful would you have to be if you had to walk around 
> > town like this? Well, as silly as this sounds, driving a car is not 
> > much different. Every minute on the road you have the potential of 
> > killing somebody and you should take that seriously. If you did not, 
> > and didn't bother to hang up you cell before driving, or taking a GOOD 
> > look before crossing traffic, or drive too fast for conditions and 
> > equipment you are on, or Drink and drive, or drive so tired you fall 
> > sleep, it is not an accident, it is a screw up. And we should be liable 
> > for screw ups. We have to be made responsible for not giving enough of 
> > a shit about people that share the roads with us. Now lets say you 
> > drive over a nail and blow a front tire in the freeway and loose 
> > control, now that is an accident, but how many of these kinds of 
> > incidents have taken the lives of our friends, compared to the idiot 
> > that just blew a stop. I personally am sick of watching people get 
> > away with murder. We have to try to make a change on the current laws. 
> > 
> > Rolo 
> > '01 Sprint 
> > 
> > 
> > On Aug 9, 2005, at 5:24 PM, Steve Bergman wrote: 
> > 
> > > I agree with David. I am sorry for the loss of friends in senseless 
> > > tragic 
> > > accidents and I am always extra sad when I read about losses posted on 
> > > this 
> > > list. 
> > > 
> > > But...please remember that the way our country has structured itself 
> > > encourages 
> > > dependency on driving cars. The average person cannot function 
> > > without owning 
> > > and operating a car and that means that there are a lot of average 
> > > people out 
> > > there driving around. Humans in general are accident prone and when 
> > > you are 
> > > hurtling down a road at the helm of a 2000lb hunk of metal a small 
> > > distraction 
> > > can lead to disaster. I don't think that makes the operator a criminal. 
> > > 
> > > It's one thing if someone is drunk or flagrantly disregarding the law 
> > > but I'm 
> > > sorry....a person can accidentally run a stop sign or pull into traffic 
> > > thinking it's clear when it's not....still just accidents and not 
> > > crimes. 
> > > 
> > > When you factor in that we are operating a vehicle that is much 
> > > smaller and 
> > > faster than 90something percent of what the average driver is looking 
> > > at then 
> > > accidents are even more likely. 
> > > 
> > > Think how quickly most accidents happen then think about how many 
> > > times your 
> > > eyes are not directly in front of you when you're driving. One quick 
> > > glance 
> > > left, right or anywhere else is enough time for the unexpected to 
> > > happen...does 
> > > that make you a criminal? 
> > > 
> > > My thoughts and regards to all who have suffered a loss. 
> > > 
> > > Steve Bergman 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > --- david.funk@xxxxxxxxxxx wrote: 
> > > 
> > >> I disagree! 
> > >> I don't think having an ACCIDENT should mean mandatory jail. 
> > >> I think we must accept that bad things can happen. 
> > >> 
> > >> But an accident is NOT a drunk driver, running a stop sign, or other 
> > >> avoidable things. 
> > >> 
> > >> David W. Funk 
> > >> Pleasanton, CA 
> > >> 
> > >> -------------- Original message -------------- 
> > >> 
> > >>> At 12:03 PM 8/9/2005 - st-triumphnet.com-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx 
> > >> offered: 
> > >>>> Last year a drunk pickup truck driver (.12 IIRC) killed a rider 
> > >>>> last year 
> > >>>> and messed up the passenger petty badly near my daughter's house. 
> > >>>> All he 
> > >>>> got was a slap on the wrist! 
> > >>> 
> > >>> I think *we* are partly to blame for not making our wishes known to 
> > >>> our 
> > >>> various state representatives and the AMA by supporting a mandatory 
> > >>> jail 
> > >>> sentence for anyone killing others on the road. As it stands 
> > >>> currently 
> > >>> there is no such law on the books, hence sentences are light. We 
> > >>> need a 
> > >>> MADD equivalent for motorcyclists, instead most m/c riders just 
> > >>> don't care 
> > >>> to get involved in politics. But that is what is really needed. 
> > >>> 
> > >>> 
> > >>> Ken T. from Ca. 
> > >>> 
> > >>> After your hands become coated with grease, your nose will begin to 
> > >>> itch. 
> > >>> - --Lorenz's Law of Mechanical Repair 
> > >>> 
> > >>> 95' Trident, 99' Triumph Sprint ST, 02' Bonneville 
> > >>> http://www.labiker.com/members/index.php?cc63d31418542 
> > >>> 
> > >>> 
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